Coddington: We would like to welcome you tonight to the maiden voyage of what we hope will be the first of many oral history -- not oral history -- but gathering data from original sources. I would like to say that I am Katherine Coddington, the chair of the San Anselmo Historical Commission. This is November 19, 1988 – October [October 19, 1988]. I am working towards November. I’d like to introduce Pat Swensen who has put all of this together.

Swensen: Thank you. Time will tell whether that is credit or blame. I should say at first, as Katherine said, this is our first effort at doing anything like this. We are doing this for two purposes: first of all for fun and fellowship, and good food and good wine, and I would like to commend the Seminary kitchen staff for the marvelous duck; secondly it is to bring the San Anselmo Historical Commission to the attention our community. We are down under the Library in a dank little area. It does have one virtue; it is always cool in the summer. We want to encourage everyone to visit us on Saturday afternoons. Especially, I'd like to recognize the fact that several of our Town officials are here this evening. I won't introduce them all right now, but we are glad they are here.

Specifically tonight, we are honoring one of the departments of our community which is one of our most essential departments and that is the Fire Department. We personally [the Swensen Family] owe a great debt of gratitude to the Fire Department for putting out a fire that raged up our hill and nearly got our house back in 1961. So I've always had a soft spot in my heart for the Fire Department.

First of all, then, to get back to the evening underway, I'd like to introduce each of our participants, of whom we have three, and ask each of them to give a little about his background, and maybe, why he ended up as a fireman.

First of all we have Bob Beedle, who came in uniform tonight so we can get an idea of how the uniforms were in that particular time. Bob, would you say a something about yourself.

Beedle: Thank you, Pat. If I could stand up, I would probably boom a little better. I’ve been associated with the Fire Department and these two characters up here several years. I started back when I was thirteen. I remember riding my bicycle down. We use to burn lots. One of my first jobs was as a lot burner, which meant I drug the hose with these guys who knew what they were doing. And I was the kind of kid that had the muscle to pull the hose up the hill. Then if I was thirteen that was a long time ago – that’s about ‘47. I loved it! Said, “I'm going to be a fireman! That’s what I want to do!” I worked as a volunteer, got into really liking it for a job. But at that time it was very hard to become a fireman. The little departments, like San Anselmo and Fairfax, were the same size for many, many years. I became a policeman, which was a very nice job, and I really loved it. I'd been a volunteer for five years and loved the Fire Department, but then I got into the sheriff's office and I worked in Marin City from midnight to eight in the morning. I don't know why I was disappointed in police work -- no, I wasn't disappointed, I loved it every moment. Then one day, we use to live next door to the former fire chief, Nello Marcucci, I guess forty-four years here?

McLaren: Somewhere in that.

Beedle: He had a forty-four year reign here in San Anselmo, and Nello said "How’d you like to be a fireman? We've going to hire two guys, now. We're going to take in Sleepy Hollow and we are going to hire two fellows.” Took in Sleepy Hollow in July, 1956, and luckily I got a job with the Fire Department. I was as pleased as I could be. My family life became -- I was home at night and every other day, not every day. When I was in the sheriff's office, you were never home at night. I loved the job. I got into the Fire Department. I walked in and the Fire Department were just super guys. Said, “This is wonderful!” My mentor here, Dick McLaren, said, “Start studying. You're going to be the next chief. You’re going to be the chief here someday.” And I said “Oh no, I'm just a kid walking in.” Dick said you better start studying; he forced me and I did. Hopefully, it worked out well for both of us. I spent from 1956 to 1986 as a fireman, a little over thirty years. I loved every minute of it. I'm very pleased to be retired and I'll tell you the experiences of the Fire Department. We'll go into those a little more later. I'll tell you some things that happened. We had a lot of fun with it, but it’s a very serious job. It’s one of the most rewarding jobs a person can have. I wouldn’t say that when you get to be chief it's so rewarding, because you have to put up with politicians, city managers, and things such as that. And we'll discuss this as the night goes on. I've been in San Anselmo probably for 52 years, 53 years. I'm 54 years old. I've probably been here most of my life. I was born in Occidental, a little town up the coast here -- you probably know where the restaurants are. I'll sit down and let her introduce somebody else.

Swensen: Thank you, Bob. Next on my left is Dick McLaren. So would you say a few words?

McLaren: Thank you, I am Richard McLaren and I happen to be a native of San Anselmo. I was born on Ross Avenue where the present Independent Savings and Loan is now. I grew up, and in my early days, we had a fire bell, not a whistle, but a fire bell. It used to go off in the middle of the night, and I used to go underneath the covers. I couldn't stand to hear it. It scared me. My father would go off. Of course, in those days every homeowner was a volunteer. So he would go off. Then he would come home. I'd say, “Dad, what happened?” "Oh,” he'd say, “it was crossed wires," and that was the word that they gave as a cause for fires in those days. As I grew up, I mean, I changed, and I hung around the fire house. I wanted to be a fireman. Well, as time went on, you couldn't be a fireman until you were eighteen years old. When I was eighteen, I automatically joined the San Anselmo Social Club, so then after they took you in as a social member, checked you out for awhile, and then if there was an opening they made you a volunteer. So eighteen years old, I became a member of San Anselmo Fire Department. Well, I was there for about two years and there was an opening for a sleeper, and in those days, the Fire Department had only two men on duty and about four sleeping there every night. So I became a regular sleeper until 1941, when I was drafted into the army for five years. I came back from the army and my mind was to be a fireman. Chief Marcucci asked me was I still interested and I said yes. I had the Civil Service Examination before I went into the service. He said I'll give another and see if you could make it. I took the examination, so I became a fireman. I spent, I guess, thirty-five years from then on as a fireman. I retired in 1977. For the last eleven years, I can't tell you what’s going on -- it's wonderful!

Swensen: Thank you, Dick. On my right is Bill Sousa. Would you tell us about yourself?

Sousa: I sure will. Like you said, I'm Bill Sousa, a native of San Anselmo. In fact, I was born right there at the end of Ross Avenue, where Wade Thomas School is today. In those days, it was known as Main School, and that was in 1918. And we had to move from 218 Ross Avenue to 57 and that was where I lived until I got married in 1949. Then we stayed two years and moved up to the 1300 block of San Anselmo Avenue.

Well, I'm really a country boy at heart, and the only time I left San Anselmo was in the service and I'm back here. And going on thirty-seven years in the Fire Department when they got rid of me. It was been enjoyable and, as I said, my two cohorts here went up the ladder higher than I did. They got to be chiefs and I only got to be captain. It’s all interesting. I can give you a little either later some highlights. We were a terrific volunteer; then we went to a pay department, and that took time. It was great. All the years I worked there it was interesting. We had to do so much. In other words, we had to maintain the grounds, the lawn outside the City Hall, to maintain the buildings. If they needed painting we had to do it if we wanted to better ourselves. And we even went further than that by adding on the whole length of the building to give the City Hall more room. That’s when we got a nice dormitory. But I can go back even further to 1928 when I started chasing the trucks. They had that old White. I think you've seen pictures of it. The only chief they had then was Charles Cartwright, called him Charlie Cartwright. But it was a thrill to follow him to the fire because most of us only had bicycles, and when he'd pull out of that firehouse, I don't know why but it left a smoke screen, and you could follow it. I don't care if you went up as far as Lansdale, but that smoke just laid in there. We could jump on our bikes and find out where he went. We were only 17 or 18 then, and if it was a small grass fire, he might let you pick up the hose and come back.

He worked for the street department at that time and worked his way up, and he'd fill in for vacationers. Maycomber was mayor at that time, and B. A. Gaston was the Town Marshall, not Chief of Police. When Donald Wood got in there, that was when they changed it to Police Department. We got a Chief of Police, not Town Marshall, anymore.

Chief Marcucci deserved a lot of credit building the department. It took him a long time, and like Mac was telling you, he had that drive to get that talent, as we use to call it in those days, so he could see what he had to pick from, because in those days we were all volunteers. We only had a paid chief, and eventually we got two more men, and that was Ambrose Ferrario, assistant chief, and Burt Meagor, the only fireman killed in the line of duty. He was a captain. So they built it up. It was just three men and they had to relieve each other. Then they got Nello to relieve the fire/police. Town Marshall at that time worked back and forth until they got two men. It got a lot easier, but they worked everyday around the clock and it was kinda rough. I didn’t think they liked it too much, but that was the best they could do.

In the meantime I could see Nello was having this drive because he was going to build a good volunteer, and after he got the volunteer, he decided he’d go one step more. He decided he wanted to get a paid department. So he looked. He had a lot of connections. He could get anything. I happened to be around so I knew. First of all, he wanted the city to become a civil service. So he had a connection there, ----------. He lived on Belle Avenue. He worked at the City Hall in San Francisco, and he brought a copy of the civil service, and they had to delete a lot of things just to fit our town. What he wanted to do is to figure if he could get good firemen. In that time if you worked for the City of San Anselmo you had to be a resident, be living in San Anselmo. So he worked on that. They got everything. 1937, July 1, they became a paid department in the City. There was going to be an examination. Going to try to get two or three off the list. I think only four passed; they hired two. So they had three plus, that made five. They used Charlie, the third one who passed the examination, to fill in on vacations. They all had vacations coming, so he filled in there, helped out for awhile. When we became a paid civil service, we had seven men. I meant to bring a picture standing by the truck. I was on volunteer and paid department. I was there on both a long time. Volunteers took awhile to be a sleeper. We always wanted the first on but they couldn't have so many sleepers. The dormitory wasn't too big. Everybody was always looking forward to it, but there were so many ahead of you. You had to kind of wait in line. But eventually I got there and that's the thrill of your life to be there and hear that bell go off in the night and get your turn to go to the fires. But I think I'll leave things there.

I can even go further than that. How we were the first to do a lot of things. I think the change came when he got that new Seagrave and poor Charlie Cartwright couldn't handle that. That was beyond his means. But we were the first to get two-way radios on the trucks. The first truck in the County to carry water to do your fire fighting. The first to have automatic sirens. Some reason we were the first to do everything. We had a good fire department, and right up to the present time. I'll sit back and let my two cohorts take over because they're a lot younger than I am.

Swensen: Thank you Bill. That was great. So we know some of the dates Bill was talking about, I’m going to ask Dick to give us a little framework of the development of the department, just exactly when it started and so forth.
 

Continuation of interview

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